need help with Tornado

Jonny · Joined: 30 Jan 2008 Posts: 3

Hi y´all!
I´m from Germany and new to this forum. I´ve got a problem on my tornado and because only a minority of foosers plays on this table in Germany i hoped you could help me.

I´ve got the table for several month now but rarely played on it because I didn´t have time. Now that I have the time I started practicing. And this is where the problem begins. On the Player4Player table (Lehmacher) which is the most widespread in Germany, I play Snake, but not from the middle of the goal but from the most outer right point possible. It´s really fast on this table and I score very high, but my problem is to transfer this shot to the Tornado.

I´ve seen a lot of games on Tornado on DVD but I´ve never seen anyone shoot a long shot that starts with a pin position. On Lehmacher every third or second player shoots a long pinshot.

Has anyone ever seen such a thing done on Tornado or is it simply not possible? Or maybe too slow, cause the ball´s to heavy and not grippy?
Thanks for your help and sorry for my english,
Jonny

P.S.: I´ve discovered that shooting a push shot comes quite close to the snake I´m shooting, so if anyone could give me some advice on this, too...

Rob Scanlon · Joined: 08 Jun 2007 Posts: 33

i think your right, shooting the snake from a corner on tornado will be difficult to score because the rod and ball are heavy and the ball is less sticky and with the texture rolls much slower.

why no try it from the middle? no reason you can't walk it to a corner when needed.

out of all the most common shots Push is by far the worst, mostly because of the extra effort required to square the shot off, with most shots if you add a little brush to a fast shot it will stay square. with the push this isn't an option and forces you to shoot open handed with a really hard hit to keep it square, the extra movement causes the shot to be slower even if it appears to go fast because of how hard the ball is hit.

it's hard to explain but if you think of each shot in terms of the time it takes to start the motion to the time the ball hits the back of the goal you will see that an open hand push is by far the slowest.

Jonny · Joined: 30 Jan 2008 Posts: 3

Thank´s a lot so far.

But where is the problem with squaring off the push? Can´t you just brush it a little bit to get it straight? I´ve already heard that Push is often shot open handed so there seems to be truth in it. I just don´t understand it, maybe you could explain it to me.

And for shooting middle: I´ve tried it on Lehmacher with the snake, but in my "early" days of foosin I shot a weird "spin shot" (dont ask Very Happy

) mostly to the push side and since switching to snake I always had problems shooting the pull.
So I switched to shooting the snake completely pushside and I´m feeling totally comfortable executing this shot. And like I said it´s really effective on sticky tables.

With pullshot it´s the same. I struggle every time I try this shot. But when I´m shooting Push it comes quiet naturally to me. I´ve practiced Pull 10 times longer than Push but my Push is 10 times better.

Rob Scanlon · Joined: 08 Jun 2007 Posts: 33

it's hard to explain but it's basically a limitation of the human body that makes squaring off a fast closed hand push. the muscle used to pull the rod back for the brush is not capable of overcoming the inertia of the arm pushing out. this only applies to fast closed hand pushes trying it half or three quarter speed you probably won't notice it.

i should have clarified earlier that there are 2 ways to square off a shot 1 we know as a brush the other is to hit the ball roughly 4 times faster than it's pulled or pushed although this method doesn't exactly square the ball due to the short distance to the goal it's close enough.

for the pull shot the muscles used to brush the ball back are stronger than the muscles used to pull so overcoming the inertia is not a problem and since big muscles are not needed for speed but are needed to brush, the pull shot will always be better.

ran out of time, i'll post more later

Jonny · Joined: 30 Jan 2008 Posts: 3

That´s exactly the precise answer I was hoping for. I´m always interested in the mechanics of a shot and the way the muscles have to work.

Unortunately you made it quiet clear that the pull is better than the push. Maybe I´ll try it anyway, it won´t do me any bad if I can shoot push, helps the D.
When I´m shooting my push snake the recoil movement is very strong, I often end up banging the near side of the wall with the bumper and the normal thin rubber-condoms for the handles only last a few shots. So maybe I could get it quiet square.

I heard from someone who knows a lot about shot-theory that the normal Pullshooter doesn´t sqare off his normal pull, only when the defender is defending the long with his 2-bar. And in that case the pullshooter would probably play a dink anyway to force the defender to switch and defend the long hole with the goalie, so he can shoot the not-so-squared-off pull again, which is faster.
Is this correct? Maybe this system would work for the Push, too. The deadbar doesn´t have to be that fast I think because it passes the 2 bar anyway, or am I wrong here again?

Greets,
Jonny

Rob Scanlon · Joined: 08 Jun 2007 Posts: 33

there are 3 kinds of hits spray, square and cut back

spray would be hitting the ball before the hole say at the center dot and having the ball spray or slide from the center dot to the long hole.

this is mostly used when the golie rod is covering the middle to 3/4 long like you said but ponting the toe out blocks the path to the hole.

a square shot will get by the toe out but is slightly slower since it's a less direct path to the hole.

a cut back s usefull for going around a deadbar or hittng a tight middle but is the least drect path and is slower still.

i was gong to post this before.

if your havng trouble with the pull you should try this.
most important things to do when learning a pull.

have a Good stance
a good starting point would be to center your body on your 5 rod, this will give your arm enough room to go threw the motion of the shot.

your right foot should be about 1 foot lengh behind your left. this will point your body roughly in the direction of your opponents 2 rod handle.

your grip should be loose and relaxed with the top of your hand level with the floor when your ball and rod are setup in the starting position.

set your rod against the far wall and place the ball on the closest man just like it would be on the middle man for a pull but just past the last dot (where you would hit a deadbar pull)

slowly lift your men and come around and hit the ball with the middle man as if your shooting a deadbar pull. (a little cut back/ brush)

keep doing this making minor changes to your stance and grip untill hitting the ball becomes comfortable, increasing the spead to find flaws.

when you can do this fairly fast but still feel comfortable youve found a good stance and grip for you.

	Please Support Our Sponsors
Tournament Directors! Request Your 2008 Sponsorship T-Shirts by Clicking Here!