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Amy Weir
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject: USTSA Elo Reset |
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Hi Mark,
Me again. I'll get those charts to you in a few days - I've been unbelieveably busy the last two weeks and haven't had a chance to get them mailed.
Mury posted on Foosline that the Elo points reset should be complete by the end of next week. In order to adjust the points on NetFoos, is there any indication as to what USTSA is using for their points base? You are currently showing a default 32 and I'm not sure if that's what USTSA is planning to use. Also, the Elo portion is showing as under development. Any ideas as to when this is going to be ready to go?
I'm not that concerned about it, since I really only use the major resets as our points tracker - we don't add or subtract points locally for our brings and draws, however, there are a fair number of very good players who are basically considered beginners based on points and they are far beyond that level, so I'm considering using Elo to track the local points for our local events, using USTSA 900 rookie as the starting point for them.
Thanks very much and Happy New Year! |
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Amy Weir
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahem! |
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Mark
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 371
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: NetFoos Elo |
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Hi Amy,
NOTE: Tony Alvaro and Lawrence Berndt, please feel free to add to this discussion below to help clarify any items or add your feedback based on your experience with the NetFoos Elo system so far (Thanks!).
I have updated your NetFoos account to allow access to the Elo Module. This is still in development, but there are a couple other groups using it on NetFoos and initial feedback is looking pretty good. I emailed you the details and if you have any questions please let me know.
Here are a few answers to your questions below (and some other general comments on the NetFoos Elo system):
The "Elo Point Base" in the NetFoos Elo system (updated in the Manage Player section of the NetFoos Admin) can be based off of the USTSA points and should be the player's points at the time their data starts in NetFoos. For example, if an unrated player comes in and you start him/her with a Elo Point Base of USTSA 900 that should be their point base for all time. Additionally, if this player's USTSA ranking goes up to 1500 three years down the road you should not need to change their NetFoos Elo Point Base as this would start to rank this player's matches as if they entered the system at 1500 when they actually entered at 900.
However, in the example above, if this player played very few matches locally during this time, you may need to play around with the Elo Base and Local Points numbers as they may only have gone up to 1000 points locally (because, in the example, they played a lot on tour to go up to 1500) -- Elo based systems need lots of data to rank things properly. As these types of issues come up we'll need to further develop the system to handle these things.
As for the default settings, you can play around with these number so see what works best for your group -- I would leave the K value at 32 for starters as this will help move things along quickly (i.e. there are up to 32 points on the line in each match). Also, entering people at a 900 Elo Point Base should work well. If they are a non-touring player that plays like a Semi-Pro you could start them out higher if desired. In theory, with enough data, it really shouldn't matter where you start them out at as things will move towards their actual values as they play many matches.
One additional note, the NetFoos Elo system is its own internal system and the numbers will likely not match those used by USTSA or IFP. However they will be relative within your own data set. For example, your top players may have 1600 points and your lowest players may be in the 600 range -- this doesn't line up with the USTSA ranking system, but within itself the rankings make sense.
I hope this helps explain it a little and please post any questions you may have here and I'll do my best to help answer them (maybe Tony and/or Lawrence can chime in too).
Mark
PS - Let me know when you mail the charts and I'll take a look at those as well (I haven't seen them come in yet). |
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Amy Weir
Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Just reading through this gave me a lot of information. I have the basics down pretty well (I think). I'm not too concerned with aligning them with USTSA, since we may wind up using Elo to track our DYPs, depending on what the players decide and that right there would place our system out of sync with USTSA. We have a lot of very good players who are not ranked under USTSA or IFP. So for local tournament seeding, I think it important to have some method by which to gauge these folks' ability and we can all see how well (or badly) we are doing as we go.
I'm going to wait until after Mury releases the final USTSA update and then I'll begin on our site with Elo.
To Lawrence and Tony, do you use the 32 point default? Or have you set your own defaults and on what criterion did you use to determine what that should be?
Thanks Mark!!!!!! I'll give you feedback as I go.
Amy |
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