New Table Status...

[SlapShot]

Dear Management,

First off I'd like to express my appreciation for the new balls. This is a good step towards running a better tournament.

However, it's been over a month and I was wondering if "we" could get an update on the "new table" situation at Lumpy's? Basically, it would be nice to know WHEN.

I spoke with Mike Sierra last week and he mentioned we couldn't make a change until the end of the year...If this is the case...That Sucks!!! The reasons for the delay is supposedly because the distributor needs to get there return from the table, which is BullShit Well, from my observation those tables are 10+ years old and should of provided that return already.

Let's use a conservative estimate to see how much revenue the tables have made at Lupmy's over the last 4 months.
Average amount of players =10
Average quarter amount/player =$7
AVerage days of tournament play =20
Tournament quarter revenue =10 * $7 * 20 = $1,400

This doesn't include casual play or the days that players come down and practice on their own or with other foosers. It would be safe to say that those tables have paid for themselves over 10x throughout their life.

I really hope that progress is being made with getting the location's management on your side. Everytime I speak with Mike about it he's always telling me that he's been talking with the distributor directly. Again, I'd like to reiterate, this is not your job!!! Get the location's managment on your side and have them MAKE the distributor put new equipment in there.

It's funny to me that you even have trouble getting new parts for the tables. Imagine if all the pool tables hade broken bumpers and torn felt. What would managment do then? I can guarantee that the distributor would be down there in a heartbeat fixing them. Are we any less valuable to the location? Or do foosball players just suck hind-titt and should continue to play on HORRIBLE tables?

I'm sure the establishment has to appreciate the revenue that we provide. I know that I've spent over $500 just in the last month. Our participation is growing, they're now getting free advertising in the Tribune (Good Job Nick & Lorainne), free advertising from this foosball site, and much more free advertising to come.

Sorry to keep bringing this up but the tables are getting worse and worse every tournament. The bars are ALL bent, both tables need all new bearings, and the overall playability is still a detriment to anyone trying to prepare for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!

Plesae fill us in on what the hell is going on.

SlapShot

[Foosfest]

Thank you to all the foosball players' participation and especially for your concerns on the table situation. We have met with management of Lumpys and the foosball distributors on making efforts to gain new brand new tables at our tournament site. In our conversations with them we are on the uprise and things are going well at our tournament location. That is due to the support and participation of all of the foosers new and old and thank you very much. After our meeting and conversations they have assured us at this rate we are in line for new tables this fall. So in order to gain those new tables we need to continue our efforts with foosball as a whole, distributor, management, and players working together toward the same common goal which is "FOOSBALL MANIA IN SLC." Thank you for your patience on this subject and support again, and we will continue to work VERY diligently toward that goal.

Lorraine & Mike

[SlapShot]

Lorainne, Thanks for the quick response.

However, your response really didn't fill in any of the blanks. I've already heard that we are inline with getting new tables in December. But what are the critieas for this decision?

It really doesn't make sense that we have to continue playing on crap. I really want to help/support the tournament but I'm having difficulties draggin' myself down there to PAY $1 a rack for the WORST tables we've ever played on.

I understand this is not an easy thing to do. But after 4+ months the tournemant is growing, which means the locations and the distributors revenues are growing, but the tables are getting shittier and shittier. Not a good combination in my opinion.

I'm all for supporting your events but something needs to be done. Whether it's getting new tables or repairing the ones we play on, I don't really care. Ultimately we need new tables but I would even settle for new rods and bearings until the new tables come in the fall.

Again, sorry for the complaint but if we don't speak up nobody will hear us.


SlapShot

[Foosfest]

Once upon a time in a foosball venue far far away. There was a weekly foosball tournament at this tournament site and there were three tables. One broken down table, strictly to lean on - nonplayable, two other foosball tables in fair shape with electrical tape holding bushings together, tie wraps holding men and bushings together, broken pins, chipped men, and no lube on site. By far these tables, that were called foosball tables, and adequate for fun, but not world class either, but yet we continued to support and play on tables on a weekly basis. At our current venue we have clean tables, we have parts to repair our tables with, FYI Best Distributing has supplied us with a care package of new men, new balls, new pins, new rubbers - bushings were not in stock, but are coming. Granted they have not supplied us with enough parts to rebuild the tables 100%, but yet enough parts to maintain the tables for tournament play.

We are working currently on progress not perfection, and we feel at this time we are making progress compared to where we were in the past. As we stated, our suppliers have supplied us with parts. Our management, as in Lumpys, is behind us 100% percent and currently matches 100% of every dollar we put in entries, which is as good as we have had it in the past or better, so there again we are working on our future with Lumpys and Best Distributing and currently are making the best of our situation as it stands. As long as we all continue to work together with player support, and management backing us, and distributors working together we have a bright future with foosball at this location. In addition to management matching our entry fees they have agreed to tournament trophies, shirts, as per tournament qualifier flyer. So there again we are currently working on finding ways and means to make our foosball tournaments in SLC a success. But, unfortunately, we just can't see it happening overnight, but with time and positive attitudes we CAN make it a success.

Thanks again to everybody for their support, and to management, and to Best Distributing for working with us. Hope to see you all at the tournament.

Lorraine & Mike

[nick]

I agree about the dollar a game. Last time I played singles I lost the flip all 3 games and they didn't offer to split and I am not going to hold a gun to there head. So that is $6.00 right just $6.00 and I understand that they pay a 100% back. But my bar tab is more than the payout. My bar tab not counting dinner or tip was $212.00. So now is it just $6.00.
Now if I take my wife out for a quality dinner I don't expect a dollar menu meal. So if I am paying top dollar for services renderd, time or materials I expect to get my moneys worth. I personally think they should change the coin slots to .50 or .75 tops.
I mean we now have found free advertising, just picture this for an ad come meet the world champion the lovely and talented Tommie Bagley. Don't you think that would bring in some interest." BUT SHE WON'T EVEN PLAY ON THESE TABLES".
We knocked West Valley Billiards (rightfully so) but they didn't charge a buck. But Tommie would play there.
Now tell me, is management doing everything they can to get this game growing "HELL NO". I can not believe, we have to wait to this fall for new tables. I've spent enough on my bar tabs alone to buy them a table.
Thanx for reading this before slapshot uses the quote function all over this subject. jees I wish he didn't learn how to use that thing hahaha
Nick

[SlapShot]

Lorainne,

It's apparent you don't want to addess the question at hand and find it necessary to address the tables at West Valley Billiards. So I'll let you know the difference between the tables at WVB and Lumpy's...from the eyes of someone whose been playing on tour.

Yes, there was a bushing problem at WVB...Yes, there was an old table that had been moved from the front to the back and it was in bad shape. However, that table was moved to the back for one reason, and one reason only...To play pickup games. This table was in such bad shape we actually had them remove it because it did suck. The other two tables were 30th anniversary talbes. Which is what is being used on tour. They rolled, bounced, and played like tour tables. The bars would NOT bend with regular play like the older models because they were heat treated. The handles weren't so old that you felt like you're holding a pencil. These tables played like foosball tables of today play.

Now, to address the tables at Lumpy's. The tables at Lumpy's are older the 10 years old. They play like OLD tables. The rods are not heat treated and are ALL bent from regular play. The bearings are packed full of shit, have never been cleaned, and are probably now ruined, and no amount of lube will make them any faster. On both tables the forward three rod bushings are split...ie broken. Throughout the table there are dead men (which is a broken pin, or a bad man, or an oblonged hole in the bar) and this affects play. These tables play nothing like tournament style tables and are a detriment to any real tournament foosball player who goes down there for practice.

So, Yes. The tables at WVB did some ties to hold the bearing until we could replace them. And yeah, there was an old POS that was there to play pickup games on. But they were nothing like Lumpy's.

I can understand that you wouldn't or don't know the difference between a quality table and a piece of shit because you are not a tour player. You haven't been playing long enough to know. You see, when your skills become more developed you'll learn the difference between good and bad tables. You'll be able to notice playability...ie how the ball bounces, how it rolls, the slickness of the surface, etc.

So please don't try and split hairs with me about how great the tables are...listen to the people who do...and try and be proactive.

Sorry for being so blunt, but I'm tired of the pissing contest.

SlapShot

[Tommie]

As far as th'tables at WVB ... They were CURRENT touring tables.

Th'tables at Lumpy's are borderline PREHISTORIC to a touring foosball player.

IF there is NO other discussion on th'matter, at least know this ONE MAJOR difference.

Let's forget, for one second, ANY maintenance issues either set of tables might need.

THE SURFACE IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND DOESN'T PLAY THE SAME!

Lorraine, I completely agree with Lee ... Please don't take this personally ... You REALLY don't know what professional touring players NEED from a table. We need consistancy (or as close to it as possible). We need t'know that the play from one table to th'next will require only MINIMAL adjustment. Not a major OVERHAUL of our stroke, or for some an ENTIRELY different shot.

Once again ... there is NO reason for you t'be workin with the VENDOR. That's Lumpy's job! All you must do is convince Lumpy's that it's in their best interest to have those tables replaced. Something you may or may not understand ... It's not gonna COST THEM ANYTHING! Make sure they know this! (Can't see how they wouldn't, but...)

Look ... I know I haven't been there playin in your tournaments ... But lemme tell you this ... WHEN I'm in SLC, I WOULD be there if th'tables were different.

I'm comin back in a couple of weeks and could be there as long as 6 months ... Will I be playin at Lumpy's? YES! WHEN you get new tables!



Something to consider ... I live in Denver mostly and there is NOT ONE TOURNAMENT that will even ASK players to play on EVEN CHERRY tables (Cherry tables are newer than th'Blonde's at Lumpy's). If someone here even tried t'start a tourney on an older table, they'd be laughed OUT of th'promoting business.

How can you ask your players to play on inferior equipment week in and week out?

-Tommie-

[nick]

First of all Lorraine I am impressed with your composure thru this on going issue it is "commendable".
As I had said in the past I ran the tourneys at Plaza when it was the consistently biggest draws ever in this state for 7 years. The one leverage I always had, was to show the big picture to MANAGEMENT not the distributor.
These vendors get 50% of the table revenue and nothing else. Management gets all revenue collected from the door, liquor,memberships, food etc... .
So bringing the attention to the bar management is much more beneficial for you. Really who has more to gain the, bar of course. So bring the attention to the bar let them see what is going on. This isn't your average pub they didn't put plasma screens in because they don't care about the product.
Being a buisness owners like myself, Lee and Tommie are it is important to know what the your customers want. The bar is our retailer not Best distributor. By telling our issues to Best. The bar doesn't know there is any issues from our side. Ultimatley the bar will let Best pay for the tables. That is Best up front investment.
I really think you are doing great. I know I would have thrown some vulgar language around. Especially considering your the mouthpiece from admin side so thanx
Nick

[Foosfest]

Friends, Romans, countrymen, business owners and experts, experienced tournament operaters and promotors, table type and maintenance experts, highly proactive people, tour players and professionals. I am but your lowly and ignorant servant - Oh, and did I forget to mention there's an awesome diner down the freakin street! I just got to love you guys.

Your adoring servant,

Lorraine

[Tommie]

Lorraine ...

If you don't want people's HONEST opinions, don't ask for them. If you DO, don't condescend people who are trying to help.

:rolleyes

-Tommie-

[Foosfest]

I'm sorry if there was a misinterpretation. The initial post wasn't a request for advice or opinions hence my last post. It was a statement that everything is moving along in a positive direction regarding the tables. We're making progress on getting the players the tables they need to feel comfortable and working diligently, however slow it may appear to some. A bit of faith, patience, and some confidence in us even if things aren't done just exactly the way you would do it is the player support that would be would be mostly helpful right now. We're certainly not asking anyone to do anything they don't want to do, however, or play on tables they feel do not meet their approval. We really feel your frustrations, and this is how you can be the most help right now going forward from today.

Regards,
Lorraine

[SlapShot]

Lorraine,

My point is that you HAVE our support. I've showed up every week, volunteered to help, accepted the invitation to run the clinic, and have always encourage people to come play on a weekly basis.

So, My Support Should Never Be In Question...

However, with anyone's support comes their opinions and requests. I don't think that we, as faithful supporters, should have to sit idley by if we have concerns. Don't take any of this personal, but please don't discount our opinions either.

We appreciate the hard work

SlapShot

[Foosfest]

Just to be perfectly clear, any positive comments made about current tables, such as in my initial post, are NOT a negation of the need for new tables or a lack of desire for new tables, or due to ignorance of the difference in playability. The desire for and need for new tables has ALWAYS been of the upmost importance to me. On that issue you guys have been preaching to the choir so to speak. I choose to focus on what I can find that is positive while working on improvements, so if I say something positive about what we have now, that is why. If some choose to view this as ignorance or a negation of what is needed, or not wanting to deal with the issues, that is their view; however, this does not reflect the truth of MY state of mind.

It is NOT my desire for anyone not voice their concerns or make comments, or sit idley by. I can tell you that I respond well to and am inspired by positive, constructive approaches, however. Apparently I have failed to make clear both Mike's intentions and my intentions regarding the table issue. Hopefully, now it is clear. And hopefully it is clear that I DO highly regard positive and constructive approaches to settling real or perceived differences of opinion.

Regards,
Lorraine

[Charlie Parker]

Lorraine,
Welcome to the promoter ranks. I have no doubt that you are putting forth your best efforts.

Charlie Parker